Curse

getalifebud · Dec 27, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Taking away the losers prize now makes the snowball arena much less fun, since you have to keep hoping not to get a team with rangers/assasins/grenth/instaleavers. Kinda takes the fun out of the festivities.

Divineshadows · Dec 27, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

I won't quit because my team mates in the Random format don't know how to play, but I will quit if they're directly exploiting the game or if there is simply no chance at all.

Snowball arena should have been made a team arena. I believe Ensign is taking the correct approach given that a-net screwed up and made the snowball arena a random arena.

When I monk in RA, I often leave a team after the first match. If their overall damage and disruption ability is really low, then I do not want more 5+ minute matches where my teammates stand around doing nothing useful while I try to handle the pressure being thrown at our team. If my team has a useless E/D earth "tank", then I will leave after the first match. If my team has a virulence sword warrior, then I will leave after the first match because nothing in RA pisses me off more as a monk than someone on my own team spreading disease back onto us. After match one, I always leave in time for the team to get a replacement for me but I know they will fail within the next one to three matches. The idea is to cycle quicker to teams with better players running better builds...players that actually deserve the privelege of having me monk for them.

Myria · Dec 27, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Snowball arena should have been made a team arena. I believe Ensign is taking the correct approach given that a-net screwed up and made the snowball arena a random arena.

Ummm... No. It's a random arena so that everyone can play, it's not meant to be serious PvP. Where Anet screwed up, and it frankly stuns me because it was so bloody predictable, was in creating the most asinine title in GW history -- and that's saying something. That idiot 'skillz' title is putting fresh red meat in front of egomaniacs who fancy themselves better than everyone else and will do and justify quite literally anything in a pathetic attempt to prove it. Without that title all of the 'pro' "Everyone but me sux so I'm going to rage quit every chance I get, who cares if I screw over three other people doing so?" players would have little reason to bother with the snowball arena and even less excuse to bitch about it.

The arena is fine. The 'noob' players are fine. It is the title and the hyper-inflated egos it attracts that are both horribly and sadly broken.

Kalki · Dec 27, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Snowball arena should have been made a team arena.

Maybe you and a couple hundred people feel that way, but I assure you that the majority of players don't feel that way. Most people just want to sit down for a couple fair games, and have fun, hence all the newbs there. Do you really think you'd play in Snowball arenas if it was so unbearably competitive you'd only win half the games, and it took 10 minutes to form a team and discuss strategy?. Just admit it. You like pwning nubs in Random Arenas, when you get on a good team. Be careful what you wish for. If Anet doesn't make the Dragon Arena random I'm gonna laugh my butt off, when the place is a ghost town, and people are complaining it wasn't random.

Quote:

After match one, I always leave in time for the team to get a replacement for me but I know they will fail within the next one to three matches.

I have absolutely no problem with people leaving after the match, or if the match looks like it's going to drag on for a long time let's say after 5 or 10 minutes. When you click "enter mission" in a random arena you should commit at least 5 minutes of you time to playing with that team.

I've left teams in RA after a match, or during a match that drags on past 10 minutes. If I'm monking and our team has 2 monks and not enough dps I'll politely volunteer to leave so they have a chance to get another dps class for the next round.

Quote:

...players that actually deserve the privelege of having me monk for them.

LOL? I hope you're joking. You could be the best monk in the world, but with that attitude I'd kick you off my team in a second. Not trying to be rude, but saying things like that makes you look ridiculous. If you're looking for another team to get wins, that's fine, but what you just said reeks of ego. I'm gonna assume you're joking though.

Gigashadow · Dec 27, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

You don't get to kick anyone off your team, it's random arena. You can, however, leave the team yourself if you feel that the monk on your random arena team, while good, knows he's good and says so, and that rubs you the wrong way. Your loss IMO.

Phades · Dec 28, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

Do you really think you'd play in Snowball arenas if it was so unbearably competitive you'd only win half the games, and it took 10 minutes to form a team and discuss strategy?.

10 minutes to get 3 other people together that know what they are doing? Please, in that small arena and format there would be little to no need to discuss anything before the match for people that knew what they were doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

Just admit it. You like pwning nubs in Random Arenas, when you get on a good team. Be careful what you wish for. If Anet doesn't make the Dragon Arena random I'm gonna laugh my butt off, when the place is a ghost town, and people are complaining it wasn't random.

Please, having a one sided battle gets booring for me, i dont know about the person you quoted though. The dragon ball arenas were booring as well, as they have no depth at all. If the dragon ball arena became a ghost town, it would have little to do with a TA format. Wow, dodge projectiles and coordinate kds, big deal. The worm mini game in the gambling area required more awareness.

atkafighter · Dec 28, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I'm going to agree with what someone up there said.
He said that the title is the cause of the problem, and I find that to be 100% correct. People aren't playing the snowball fights for fun, or to enjoy the festival, but they are instead obsessed with gaining points toward their title. I don't mind playing with inexperienced players, because they should be having fun doing something new to the game, but instead their experience is made worse with jerks harassing them, and leaving the games, or afk players entering matches. Don't get me wrong I'm no snowball fight master, but I understand how the game works, and it requires alot of teamwork and coordination. I usually play my warrior, and run all the gifts myself while my team tries to kill everthing that moves. Sometimes I play my monk so I can help out the other present runner (if there is one to protect).
I snowball for the candy cane shards, because competing for presents in towns is very slow, boring, and frustrating. All the spawn spots are covered, and a present will only land you 1 shard (and I know about the LA NPC winter gift, and its still not worth the trouble). I try to farm low level monsters for shards, but it doesn't net me as many canes as the occasional 3 shard win in RA snowball matches. I actually got a black dye this way which I am happy for, but I still am not getting any shards this way. So whats left to do for candy cane shards? Snowball fights of course!
At first I was ok with losing because I got eggnog, but that was quickly removed. While it does stink that the eggnog was removed I understand why they did that, but even with no reward there are still tons of afk players who repetedly enter matches. I just don't understand why people put so much effort to ruin other peoples experiences.
There are just too many factors participating in the overall dissatisfaction felt in this event.
The only event I've ever been able to catch was this years Halloween, and I loved it. I was able to catch the King twice netting me both the Lions hat and the Kamadan hat. I also got quite a bit of items from the Mad King. I'm waiting until the finale to make my final decision about this event, but as of now the event is somewhat disapointing. I appreciate A-Net for even doing these events, but I wish they were more enjoyable for the players that just sign on to enjoy themselves.
Sorry for the long read but I had alot to get out of my head. Also, I'm not blaming A-Net for the events' failure, but the players are responsible for the failure of this event. Sure there are things they could do to help the situation, but in the end I'm sure they will find that it wont be worth the effort. Some people will never be satisfied.

Ensign · Dec 28, 2006, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

Do you really think you'd play in Snowball arenas if it was so unbearably competitive you'd only win half the games, and it took 10 minutes to form a team and discuss strategy?

The games like that are the reason I play competitive games in the first place. Beating up on scrubby teams in Snowball Arena makes my eyes glaze over, I enjoy playing against the teams that have a clue and where strategy matters. Along those lines, I enjoyed the first several of those matches that I played, until I realized that the winner of any truly competitive match was determined by which team happened to end up on the Dwayna side. After that realization I've pretty much given up on the format.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

When you click "enter mission" in a random arena you should commit at least 5 minutes of you time to playing with that team.

The only length of time that I'll commit to an individual is the amount of time it takes for me to assess whether or not they have any clue what they are doing, or if they're the kind of person who could hurt themselves riding a tricycle. Once I've made that assessment there's no longer any reason for me to commit time to them if they are not useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

LOL? I hope you're joking.

He's not. Why should he be? Some people simply are not worth your time. If you don't understand that, I suggest you develop a higher opinion of yourself and your time. You might not like the way he worded it, but it is absolutely true - any interaction with another person is not a right, it's a privilidge, and one that is readily taken away if you're wasting people's time.

Peace,
-CxE

atkafighter · Dec 28, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I enjoyed the first several of those matches that I played, until I realized that the winner of any truly competitive match was determined by which team happened to end up on the Dwayna side. After that realization I've pretty much given up on the format.

I forgot to talk about this in my post, but yeah while it is unbalanced a bit in terms of Dwayna, and Grenth skills I have won with Grenth, and lost with Dwayna. Some players don't even use their Avalance, or Hidden Rock. Its pretty annoying to have inept players on your team, but what can you do right?
Also, what you do with your time is completely your decision. Who is to say that you HAVE to finish each match? I left a game because one person was afk, and one left. I leave if someone else does. Heck I left one time because I was the only one picking up gifts, and 4 in a row were fake, and we were 0-3. It isn't nice I know, but what is the point? I'm Grenth about 75% of time, and I have had more afkers SINCE they removed the eggnog. As Grenth and one man down are you going to win? Or two men down? I do think it is rude to leave before the gates even open. Or before you get an idea of how well you team will work together. At least give them a reason. I usually say sorry guys but were one man(two men) down, and on Grenths side 0-3 I'm leaving. I also noticed how quiet teams are. True there is little time to type a full message during play, but at least ping if you need assistance, or call a target or something.

Ensign · Dec 28, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

get over yourself and be helpful instead of quitting.

I know this wasn't directed at me in particular, but I'll answer anyway. The people who want help will ask for it. They'll look it up for themselves, or find someone who would know and asks, and I don't turn those questions away. But they aren't frequent. At the same time, the people who do not ask, largely do not want the help. In general, they either do not share your goals and do not care about your advice, or do not have sufficient humility to accept advice that is given. As a result, I simply do not bother offering advice unless it is to a very broad audience, ala a forum - and even then, it's largely because the people who want help, and know how to help themselves, will find it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

Unless these people are hurling abuses at you or others there's no reason to quit.

My team being incapable of winning is a perfectly good reason to quit. I see no reason to stick around during garbage time in a lost game just to accomplish...well, I don't know what that accomplishes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yandawar

But losing games because someone thought so little of their skills and their worth as human beings as to not consider it worth their effort to work together for five lousy minutes? That might be a problem.

No one is making any evaluation of someone else's worth as a human being. I am making an evaluation of the worth of my teammates, in direct comparison to the players on the other team.

You are given plenty of information in the first 30 seconds of a match - what people do before the gates open (how many teammates walk up to the gate or put up Hidden Rock / Yellow Snow?), how people position themselves before the first present drops (do they spread out to react quickly to the first present spawn, or charge the other team like morons?), how they react to the first present drop (do they go to pick it up or fight over it, to cover or contest a cap, or do they continue to stand around doing nothing?) With just a little bit of combat, you can identify the players who know what's up on both teams, you can identify the players on the other team who are actually dangerous, and from that determination plus an appraisement of your own ability figure out your chances of winning. When that number is artificially close to zero, it's time to find a new match.

Again, this is not any appraisement of someone's worth as a human being, and I'd honestly pity anyone who did feel that way (because I'm a big softie like that and they must have serious ego problems). It is merely an assessment of their ability to win at a game of Snowball Arena, and how useful they are to my goal of winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yandawar

My apologies, that characterization might indeed have been out of line. Although it's not a big step to that from, for example, Ensign's "I do not have any fun losing blowout matches because my teammates are a bunch of baboons".

My apologies for employing metaphor instead of the much less dramatic simile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Threepwood

Well, I have the same story as the OP. I thought: Let's have some fun in the snowball arena, but every game you join you either have one or two leavers or one or two people AFK.

What about people who leave because you have AFKers?

Also - from your perspective, what about players who are so bad that they might as well be AFK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by atkafighter

I forgot to talk about this in my post, but yeah while it is unbalanced a bit in terms of Dwayna, and Grenth skills I have won with Grenth, and lost with Dwayna. Some players don't even use their Avalance, or Hidden Rock.

Oh, I've experienced both as well. It's not like Grenth = autoloss or anything (though, if you have a solid team, Dwayna really does basically equal autowin), but mostly in situations where both teams were pretty bad (neither team used sufficient tactics to make the Avalanche/Yellow Snow imbalance noticible). The better the teams are, the more obvious the imbalances are between the two skills are. When you have a good team, and are playing against a good team, and are destroying people / getting destroyed by Avalanche, it is clear as night or day. The games like that I have played as Grenth, that I have won, were a lot closer than they had any business being based on the skill of the players - the ones I lost as Dwayna...well, I can't say I've lost with a good team as Dwayna.

Basically, it doesn't matter in the scrubby matches, but in the really good matches (between streaking teams) the team with Dwayna will win, and when the high point of the gametype is the really competitive matches it's a bummer that those aren't settled on the field, but on the coinflip.

Peace,
-CxE

CagedinSanity · Dec 28, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

Tough luck. I haven't had issues in the Snowball Arena. None. Maybe it was your fault..

Haha, me neither. One person did leave on a match, but only because we had 0 and they and 3 or 4. It's game over by then anyway.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Dec 28, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

I also hate it how noobs act like they now everything. They are so ignorant it infuriates me, and any build thats not completely cookie cutter will get you this response:

"Dood WTF u suakc go bakc to PvE fr N00bs, wid ur n00b FoW! Go farm UW stfu, lern2play losr and nevar com bakc!"

It really infuriates me, especially when they are the ones causing the most detriment to the team. God, they act so big and bad but if they weren't hiding behind the big doors of the internet I bet you they wouldn't be so tough. Do you guys ever meet people like this?

duuuuuude I have the "pleasure" of dealing with people like this all the time, and I straight up tell em, "yer tough now, behind your little computer, but you wouldn't be talking if we were face to face."

LagunaCid · Dec 28, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I wasn't aware the definition of fun included playing with people who not only are incapable of understanding how to play the game, but also refuse to learn. Winning is fun. Wasting thousands of minutes losing due to factors beyond your control is not, especially after the novelty of the arenas wears off (in about 10 minutes).

Unless you are a sadistic nut, leaving 3 other players to sure loss isnt exactly my definition of FUN.

Telcontar of Gondor · Dec 28, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LagunaCid

Unless you are a sadistic nut, leaving 3 other players to sure loss isnt exactly my definition of FUN.

Unless you are a masochistic nut, staying with 3 other players that don't have a chance of winning with or without you isn't exactly my definition of fun.

Myria · Dec 28, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only length of time that I'll commit to an individual is the amount of time it takes for me to assess whether or not they have any clue what they are doing, or if they're the kind of person who could hurt themselves riding a tricycle. Once I've made that assessment there's no longer any reason for me to commit time to them if they are not useful.

So much for the notion that there's no 'I' in 'team'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

My team being incapable of winning is a perfectly good reason to quit.

Short of four AFKers, no team is incapable of winning. What you're assessing, in whatever way you decide, is whether or not they have a sufficient chance of winning. That is more than just a semantic difference. If you were indeed leaving because your team was literally incapable of winning, no one would likely gainsay that. Instead you're leaving because you, using a very curt and decidedly limited observation, have decided that your team does not have a 90% (or whatever your personal threshold is) chance of winning. How your leaving affects that team does not in the least concern you, "they are not useful" so who cares if you further screw them over?

It is that attitude many, including myself, find so utterly loathsome, that all that matters is you winning, everything else, including basic manners and sports(wo)manship be damned.

(Edit : Spelling)

Quozz · Dec 28, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

My team being incapable of winning is a perfectly good reason to quit. I see no reason to stick around during garbage time in a lost game just to accomplish...well, I don't know what that accomplishes.

Basically, it doesn't matter in the scrubby matches, but in the really good matches (between streaking teams) the team with Dwayna will win, and when the high point of the gametype is the really competitive matches it's a bummer that those aren't settled on the field, but on the coinflip.

Sorry but that is not a good reason to quit. So long as one other person on your team is making any kind of effort to play you should be playing as well. A true competitive person is not concerned with the outcome of a game. Its the play of the game itself that is important. So what if you might lose. The best battles are not those between two equal teams but are those where you have to overcome handicaps to prevail. Even if its 4 on 2, the challenge is in seeing if maybe you can still manage to run a present or two.

If your only concern is winning and are so insecure about losing then I suggest you buy a deck of cards and take up solitaire. Whatever happened to the concept of sportsmanship? You know, "its not whether you win or lose its how you play the game". The players on this thread trying to defend quitting on their teammates are displaying an amazing lack of maturity.

Finally if you believe that the coinflip is the determining factor in who wins between two evenly matched teams in snow ball arenas then you are sorely lacking a true competitive spirit. So what if one side has an edge. Chalk it up as an extra challenge and see what happens. If you do win then the victory is even sweeter and if you lose no big deal since you know you gave it your best shot and played a good game.

The true winners in life are those than can handle and deal with losses. Those that refuse to face loss or come up with excuses to avoid it are not fooling the rest of the population as to who they really are.

Divineshadows · Dec 28, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

A true competitive person is not concerned with the outcome of a game. Its the play of the game itself that is important. So what if you might lose.

No, being competitive is about the stuggle of the game AND the results. Straight from dictionary.com's definition of competitive:

having a strong desire to compete or to succeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

The best battles are not those between two equal teams but are those where you have to overcome handicaps to prevail. Even if its 4 on 2, the challenge is in seeing if maybe you can still manage to run a present or two.

What do you win in that situation? Absolutely nothing. "Moral victories" mean nothing. Sports atheletes (at least the competitive ones) don't feel any better that they lost a game by a few points when they got blown out the previous time they faced that same team. The sting of a loss still hurts the competitive ones just as much.

LagunaCid · Dec 28, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar of Gondor

Unless you are a masochistic nut, staying with 3 other players that don't have a chance of winning with or without you isn't exactly my definition of fun.

Teach me your psychic powers that let you see the future!
It might be of some use for me.

Zubey · Dec 28, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

There should be an mild dis-incentive against leaving. Like you can't join a new game for 5 minutes.

Clinically Proven · Dec 28, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Maybe I have a misplaced sense of fun, but I do not have any fun losing blowout matches because my teammates are a bunch of baboons. Having to constantly re-enter the arena trying to find a group of people who know how to play Guild Wars, so that I can have fun, is the most frustrating thing about random formats.

If you don't want me quitting out on your groups, suck less.

This kind of post disappoints me on two fronts:

1. It's really just a nicer way of saying: 'OMG lrn 2play, you guys r teh suck!!!11!! I'm da rockz0r!!!'.

I'm sure you won't enjoy the comparison, Ensign, but it's exactly the same mindset.

As random arenas are the stepping stone into PvP and has an unstructured format, wouldn't you expect that the skill level (and builds in Random Arena) employed by a significant proportion of the participants wouldn't be of a particularly high level?

Assuming the above is true; why would you enter a random arena and be mentally unprepared to play with and/or against papio?

2. I don't believe that the idea of a random arena is to continually leave and re-enter to get a decent team, be that either by skill or composition, rather it is to do the best you can with the teammates randomly assigned to you.

Surely, if you derive enjoyment from organised teams with some semblence of skill them your time would be much better spent in an arena which supports the same rather than further handicapping the less gifted by leaving their team short a player.